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Aajonous Vonderplanitz had some interesting, correct, though un-thoroughly explained ideas on bacteria. One idea he conveyed was that most bacteria, except for man made bacteria, is commensal or symbiotic. It seems this is mostly correct, and we tend to know a lot, to the point of having specific treatment protocols, about the particular bacteria and parasites that are not commensal or symbiotic

From his books and interviews, along with my separate research, I present a model of microbes found on/in meat.

  • There are various forms of microbes
    • native microbes (native healthy microbes (NHM)) that exist in live animals in symbiosis or commensalism
    • native microbes (native unhealthy microbes (NUM)) that exist in diseased animals, usually consequent to bad diet and lifestyle
    • opportunisitic environmental microbes (OEM) (e. coli)
      these microbes are not necessarily either symbiotic or commensal
    • mutated microbes (MM), occuring from one of the above when presented with unnatural conditions (that damage/change their DNA), such as:
      • microbes eating cooked food causing microbe mutation ( owing to increased toxicity of environment ( cooking meat destroys meat cells, combining their ingredients in an unnatural soup ))
      • microbes being cooked and surviving, though mutated
      • microbes being frozen and surviving, though mutated
        microbes eating frozen food ( similar to cooking, freezing destroys meat cells and creates a potentially toxic environment)
  • Microbes can eat denatured or problematic live flesh, and this can promote health, much like senolytics
  • OEM will outcompete NHM in conditions mimicking a rotting corpse in the sun (moderate to high temperature, high amount of denaturing flesh)
    • freezing and cooking provide the high amount of denaturing flesh requisite for OEM to outcompete NHM
      this is why food poisoning occurs from either partially cooked food or cooked food that has been sitting out for too long, and rarely from purely raw meat
    • freezing and cooking will also kill off some or most NHM, providing a easier environment for OEM to grow
  • Freezing and cooking will cause mutated NHM which may not be symbiotic
  • Open air ambiant warm temperature presents both the temperature and high amount of denaturing flesh for OEM to thrive. Consequently, OEM may outcompete NHM in some climates, and ingesting such infested meat may cause illness by OEM overgrowth depending upon stomach acid, bile production, and microbiome.

High Meat

Eskimos who bury the meat allow NHM to slowly consume the meat and produce useful products (vitamin K2, butyrate, glutamate).

Discussion

Frank Tufano:

With the presence of various methods of fermentation in indigenous groups I don’t think high heat fermentation is harmful. Indigenous aborigines ate flesh that was rotting for months buried in the ground in a hot climate. Same with the African tribes letting fish rot in the sun. Although this was for a period of weeks, not the year the arctic groups used.

What’s questionable is if cooked meat fermentation is beneficial or harmful as it was done in indigenous groups. They would cook or smoke the meat and let it ferment.

I’m not sure if freezing necessarily ruins the bacterial profile. It reduces the nutrient content slightly which probably alters how the bacteria feeds, or maybe the freezing process causes nhm to be unable to grow properly, and num flourishes.

Grithin:

Interesting. Well, science knows that different types of bacteria thrive in different temperature ranges. However, to model the situation, I’d have to gather

  • a list of beneficial bacterial and mold and their preferred temperature ranges
  • a list of non-beneficial “”
  • a list of locational tendencies
    • a greater prevalence of some bacteria on the top of the ground vs in the ground vs in the air
    • potentially different bacteria in different regions of the earth

I’m also inclined to think that bacteria have changed over time, and that the amount of pathogenic bacteria that thrive through the compactness of modern civilization may have increased, and that these pathogenic bacteria will do better in non refrigerated temperatures that mimic room temperature (room temperature where they would normally spread around).

Now, as for freezing, I actually wrote and article summarizing what occurs to meat https://grithin.com/freezing-meat/

So, on freezing and cooking, both of these kill some percentage of native microbes and both present the potential for mutations. However, this does not mean that the result will be infestation of negative OEM – there are multiple factors that will allow a cooked, room temperature rotted meat to be fine:

  • the OEM in the area is not harmful
  • enough of the NHM survived to still outcompete the OEM
  • mutations in NHM from cooking did not result in a negatively acting microbe

So, I’m inclined to think if you’ve managed to successfully rot some meat at room temperature, then the OEM in your area is either not sufficiently competitive or it is not a negative microbe. If we look at restaurants, however, I’m inclined to think there is a higher chance of pathogenic OEMs.

Conclusion

You can probably get away with rotting meat at room temperature, but it might be safer to do it in mild refrigerated termpatures.

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